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dek
Joined: 02 Oct 2009
Posts: 2
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 Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:18 pm Post subject: Would you recommend DR800SG? |
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I am considering DR800SG for my school (for my colleagues and students). I am currently using DR1000S for my work (reading and annotating research articles in pdf documents), but hesitating to recommend it to my school because it seems too expensive.
DR800SG seems to be a good alternative. It is relatively cheap, and has a tablet feature (for annotation with stylus) to be implemented later.
I am asking you the question in this iLiad forum because DR800SG looks similar to it. If you have used iLiad for pdf document reading, how do you like it? Based on your experience with iLiad for pdf reading, could you recommend DR800SG?
Thanks. |
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Shaggy
Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Posts: 1101
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not sure any recommendations at this point would be very meaningful. None of us have even gotten a chance to see one yet.
I'm definitely interested in getting one, but I certainly wouldn't make any recommendations either way until I've actually had some experience with it. |
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Jon Walker
Joined: 02 Oct 2009
Posts: 8
Location: Burlington County, NJ, USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:35 pm Post subject: Re: Would you recommend DR800SG? |
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| dek wrote: | | I am asking you the question in this iLiad forum because DR800SG looks similar to it. If you have used iLiad for pdf document reading, how do you like it? Based on your experience with iLiad for pdf reading, could you recommend DR800SG? |
I am in a similar position in that I wish to move from the Kindle 2 to an eBook reader that supports PDF files. Also, like you, I have no hands on experience with any of the current iLiad 8.1 inch screen models and have been trying to learn all I can about this "soon to be available" device. Based on what little information is available on the web and what iRex has posted in the PDF forum regarding the optimization of PDF files for use on the iLiad, it would appear that any recommendation to be made would have to be based oh the target PDF files you/your colleagues plan to view on the device. Since the reader is said to scale the original PDF page to "fit" the screen dimensions, a US Letter/A4 page that looks fine on your DR1000S would not be optimized for an 8.1 inch screen having a recommended page size of 124 x 152 mm (4.88 x 5.98 in) with recommended borders of 1 mm (0.04 in) left/right and 5 mm (0.20 in) top/bottom. On the other hand, if the device is to be used for the viewing of custom formatted PDF content (which I plan to generate), then this may not be such a "big deal" in the long run. Thus, based on the information I can find on the internet, if your intention is to view "standard" size PDF pages (i.e., on the order of 8.5 x 11 inches), I would likely opt for the DR1000S, Kindle DX, or possibly wait for the Plastic Logic eReader to be released next year.
Not sure if this is of any help but this is the fence upon which I am sitting at the moment -- unsure wether to get a DR1000S or Kindle DX now, hope for the DR800SG release to come off as scheduled, or wait to see what Plastic Logic comes up with next year. In fact, no one on this forum has yet opted to advise me whether or not the current PDF Reader firmware now used on the DR1000S, iLiad, iLiad 2, and/or DR800SG even supports internal "GOTO" links (e.g., Table of Contents links) which seem to work fine in tests with Preview, Acrobat Pro, and Adobe Reader software. In hopes that a current user can provide feedback regarding this issue, as well as, best font faces, best font size, paragraph spacing, drop shadow use, etc., I am in the process of uploading test PDF files which are formatted specifically for iRex 8.1 inch screen devices as per their "How To" document download. |
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Shaggy
Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Posts: 1101
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: Would you recommend DR800SG? |
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| Jon Walker wrote: | | In fact, no one on this forum has yet opted to advise me whether or not the current PDF Reader firmware now used on the DR1000S, iLiad, iLiad 2, and/or DR800SG even supports internal "GOTO" links (e.g., Table of Contents links) which seem to work fine in tests with Preview, Acrobat Pro, and Adobe Reader software. In hopes that a current user can provide feedback regarding this issue, as well as, best font faces, best font size, paragraph spacing, drop shadow use, etc., I am in the process of uploading test PDF files which are formatted specifically for iRex 8.1 inch screen devices as per their "How To" document download. |
The DR800 will use completely different PDF software than any of their other devices, so nobody really knows all of the features at this point. The new software is based on Adobe's platform, the current iLiad and DR1000 are using PDF readers based on an open source platform. Note, at some point in the future the DR1000 will be switched to use the same Adobe software as the DR800, but that has not happened yet. |
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Jon Walker
Joined: 02 Oct 2009
Posts: 8
Location: Burlington County, NJ, USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Would you recommend DR800SG? |
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Firs off, thank you, Shaggy, for responding (at last, a real, live person) and greetings from NJ. Sorry if I came off sounding as if I were chastising the general iRex forum members. It has been a very frustrating weekend and I admit I am somewhat more used to the 'instant gratification" of forums like Apple's where answers frequently begin pouring in as soon as you can post your question. (I also, as a matter of fact, hate waiting in the checkout lines at stores thinking about all of the other things I could be doing. (I.e., recently retired and go stir crazy when unable to complete projects in what I feel is a reasonable time.)
| Shaggy wrote: | | The DR800 will use completely different PDF software than any of their other devices, so nobody really knows all of the features at this point. The new software is based on Adobe's platform, the current iLiad and DR1000 are using PDF readers based on an open source platform. Note, at some point in the future the DR1000 will be switched to use the same Adobe software as the DR800, but that has not happened yet. |
Once again, thanks for that bit of information. However, it still begs the question as to whether the current open reader reads the test files created over the weekend and posted to a temporary web site uploaded on Saturday. These files read correctly in Preview (the built-in Mac OS X system PDF reader, Adobe Acrobat 7 Pro, and Adobe Reader 8. (Will try to remember to download and test them in the v9 reader today.)
Am not normally a PDF user and am primarily concerned with how my test files look on currently available readers before worrying models not yet available. (The DR800SG being an exception since it is "almost" available at this time.) Have yet to determine whether something like the current DR1000S would be more suitable for my use than the DR800SG or not.
In addition, as I plan to download hundreds, if not thousands, of public domain files from Project Gutenberg and custom them under paragraph 1.E of their license, I am most interested in learning how these "custom" files will look on various devices. For instance, is the Lucida Grande font face too "thick/wide" for the iRex or VizPlex display screens? Should I be using a finer/more delicate font face. Since I can only view/test my test files in readers on my computer at allowed resolutions, how do these views compare with the displays of the various eReaders which have their own differing display dimensions and resolutions? While I can simulate an 8 level or 16 level grayscale version of one of my test PDF file pages in Photoshop, how does this simulation compare in reality to what one of the eReaders actually display when a drop shadow is embedded in a file? I.e., does it display a number of "puddle" shades in the background? If so, how many and do they detract or add to the reading experience?
My basic problem is that the only device I personally own is a Kindle 2 -- which, as you probably know, does not support PD files. And, while I can download HTML source files, customize and save them as Pages (Mac word processor), I have export the customized content to a Word DOC file and e-mail it to Amazon for conversion to ASW file format the retains all of the custom formatting, working table of contents, etc. and then Amazon has to e-mail the AZW file version back to me for installing on my reader. Not a very efficient workflow to my mind. Would instead, prefer to simply export the file from Pages directly to a PDF file customized for the specific reader I end up purchasing.
This is why I'm seeking current device users who can provide feedback both about models currently on the market and new ones as they are released. I am not as much interested in a brand name as I am in the functionality of the device. Basically, am trying to narrow the field down to a select number of models that might be considered "prosumer" models that would last/be supported for a period of time measured in years rather than months. I have no illusions about manufacturers making improvements or that anything I end up buying won't be outmoded shortly after purchase.
However, this process of evaluating models may take months for me and during the interim I wish to put my time to good use creating the intermediate file formats/structures to be included in the final product. Turning a US Letter or A4 sized file into a 10.2, 9.7, 8.1, or 8 inch device file only takes a matter of minutes -- simply loading in a new paper size profile and letting the application re-flow the content. On the other hand, making changes to the various font/paragraph styles, re-scaling graphics, determining the proper line/paragraph spacing, etc., and applying them throughout a document can be time consuming and that is why I created a web site to which to upload test files or others to test on their own devices and get back the feedback which I hope to incorporate into intermediate files before actually creating the final targeted PDF for whatever device I end up purchasing. (I am talking about the pre-conversion of something like 250 to 2500 files between now and next January -- depending on the length of the individual files, their complexity, feedback advice, number of times I end up remodeling all previous intermediate file formats and/or structures. Am retired and this project, slong with my archiving of videos and TV shows spanning more than seven decades, may well take a good portion of my remaining life...
Anyone interested testing files can press the Home "WWW" button associated with this entry to access the files currently posted. At this time their are four public domain SciFi files (3 by Marion Bradley Zimmer and 1 by E. E. "Doc" Smith), each in 6 different versions supposedly targeted for different device screens. Used the margins recommend for the iLiad, so I don't know if they are well suited to other readers. (I.e., another possible feedback area since I don't know if/how much display area specific readers may/do reserve for statistics/info while reading.) |
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badbob001
Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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For how the display looks, you will need to go to a store and check out the devices. Sony Readers are easy since they are available at Sony Stores and you can bring a flash card with your test files. Eventually, Barnes and Noble and Best Buy will have readers in their stores for you to look at. All displays are made from the same company so they all should roughly look similar to your kindle 2, but I think you're more concerned about the pdf rendering than the display itself.
The irex dr800sg's flash card is under the battery door, so it will be more difficult to test with your own files. If only you can surf the internet with that device to access your own website. Of course, if you like everything else about the reader, you can always buy it, try it out at home, and return it if it doesn't work out.
Also, do you actually need the full page to be viewable on the whole screen, since that would mean a much larger and less portable device than your kindle. Most devices can be held sideways to offer a wider view and you just need to page down, which would be a similar experience for most people when viewing PDFs on a computer. I too would like the New York Times to look like the original, but that would mean a poster-size display. |
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Jon Walker
Joined: 02 Oct 2009
Posts: 8
Location: Burlington County, NJ, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:12 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for your response, BadBob.
| badbob001 wrote: | | For how the display looks, you will need to go to a store and check out the devices. Sony Readers are easy since they are available at Sony Stores and you can bring a flash card with your test files. Eventually, Barnes and Noble and Best Buy will have readers in their stores for you to look at. All displays are made from the same company so they all should roughly look similar to your kindle 2, but I think you're more concerned about the pdf rendering than the display itself. |
Have managed to do just that at my local Staples over the last two days. (The local Best Buy has yet to set up a display.) Unfortunately, have only had access to the 6-inch Sony Touch Reader so far. You are correct about my interest in the PDF file rendering since the Kindle 2 doss not support PDF files and I had no idea how they would look or what features might be supported by the various eReaders. Yesterday I determined that use of the Lucida Grande font was overkill even on such small screens and I spent the night re-formatting 6 variations of four different public domain works for further tests today. Based on today's results, I reformatted just a VizPlex/Sony 6-inch display file and was able to condense the content by 131 pages using a font/size combination that suited my personal reading habits. (Removing line shapes I had also embedded may have helped and I will see if this improves bookmark jumps any in tomorrow's tests.) As far as the Sony 6-inch is concerned, I find the size, shape, and display to be very suitable for my needs. Was worried that I might need a larger screen but custom formatting of PDF files seems to take care of any internal scaling problem. Unfortunately, I am not sure that I like the "touch" feature (at least as far as using my fingers to do "the walking"). Will need to get some "hands on" time with the iRex Wacom hardware implementation to see it it is more precise for someone with very fat fingers. Frankly, my initial impression is that I may want two different PDF capable devices -- one for "mobile" use and a larger one to act as my main "home" library. Looks like a 5 or 6 inch Sony (?non-touch?) device might do well for mobile use and something in the 8 to 10 inch range for main library use. (Leaning more towards something like the DR800SG based on what I've seen to date for "home device.") Was delighted to find the Sony 8-level grayscale even rendered drop shadows much better than I had hoped and both auto-generated TOCs and bookmarks were supported. (Tested the addition of "Previous" and/or "Next" bookmarks to my chapter title lines today and they also worked correctly.) It was also nice that the Sony Reader recognized the "flat" files placed on the media card and automatically created a "Sony Reader" folder containing the needed XML and database files. (Kindle requires you to place the content into a specific folder area for recognition/use.)
| badbob001 wrote: | | The irex dr800sg's flash card is under the battery door, so it will be more difficult to test with your own files. If only you can surf the internet with that device to access your own website. Of course, if you like everything else about the reader, you can always buy it, try it out at home, and return it if it doesn't work out. |
Yes, I'd read that is was located under an apparent "screw down" cover along with the battery which I am wondering about also. (I.e., do iRex devices come with user changeable batteries?)
| badbob001 wrote: | | Also, do you actually need the full page to be viewable on the whole screen, since that would mean a much larger and less portable device than your kindle. Most devices can be held sideways to offer a wider view and you just need to page down, which would be a similar experience for most people when viewing PDFs on a computer. I too would like the New York Times to look like the original, but that would mean a poster-size display. |
Originally thought I might based on complaints regarding the Kindle DX. However, these small screens do render remarkably well when the PDF files are custom formated for the particular device in question. Since my work flow is based on the conversion of public domain files to PDF, the only additional requirement is to create and use a custom "paper" profile for each device you plan to use. In my case, I was still able to read iRex 8.1 and VizPlex 8 inch formatted files on the Sony 6-inch display using glasses. However, the scaling of iRex 10.2 and VizPlex 9.7 inch files was totally unsuitable for my use. And while you can change the orientation, change the "size" option and/or zoom in on such content, I find this approach to be more trouble than it is worth. Frankly, I prefer simply formatting the PDF to the exact viewing scale I want when creating the file. This is not, of course, a problem with other file formats which reflow independently based on the screen size in use. My main problem is that I will likely not be downloading compatible public domain files in other formats because I do not want things like Project Gutenberg's licensing agreement repeatedly included in each and every file. (I.e. under paragraph 1.E of the license you are allowed to remove the extraneous material as long as all references to Project Gutenberg are also deleted -- otherwise there are specific restrictions on your use of the files.) |
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Shaggy
Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Posts: 1101
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Jon Walker wrote: | | Unfortunately, I am not sure that I like the "touch" feature (at least as far as using my fingers to do "the walking"). Will need to get some "hands on" time with the iRex Wacom hardware implementation to see it it is more precise for someone with very fat fingers. |
FYI, the iRex Wacom touch screens use a stylus for input, they are not "finger" touch.
| Quote: | | Yes, I'd read that is was located under an apparent "screw down" cover along with the battery which I am wondering about also. (I.e., do iRex devices come with user changeable batteries?) |
Previous iRex devices have not had user changeable batteries. I have not heard anything official, but it sounds like the DR800 does. We are mostly assuming that a "battery door" implies user changeable batteries (which would be great), but I don't think I've seen anything official that confirms it. |
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jboardman
Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 62
Location: St. Joseph, MI
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:11 pm Post subject: Should be a good purchase |
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Although no one has yet seen the DR800SG, I await its arrival eagerly. I have used my Iliad for about a year now, taking it to court with me for note-taking and reading my arguments in front of a jury. The Iliad is a marvelous device with several short-comings. The PDF reader lacks sophistication, and some items are hard to read. The mobipocket reader is my reader of choice, and I convert my docs from .doc to .azw through Amazon (I also own a Kindle that I gave to my wife when I purchased the Iliad) and then to .mobi using Python. Quite a circuitious way of doing business, but I like the Iliad enough to go to the trouble. The 8.1" screen is the key for me, along with the ability to note-take.
If the DR800SG does all the Iliad can do PLUS connect to Barnes and Noble and has a better PDF reader, I'll be one of the first in line. In the mean time... I LOVE my Iliad!
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Shaggy
Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Posts: 1101
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: Should be a good purchase |
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| jboardman wrote: | | The mobipocket reader is my reader of choice, and I convert my docs from .doc to .azw through Amazon (I also own a Kindle that I gave to my wife when I purchased the Iliad) and then to .mobi using Python. |
I'm actually the opposite. I usually convert my mobipocket files to PDF.  |
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Jon Walker
Joined: 02 Oct 2009
Posts: 8
Location: Burlington County, NJ, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Shaggy wrote: | | FYI, the iRex Wacom touch screens use a stylus for input, they are not "finger" touch. |
Yes... As noted elsewhere, I am very interested to see how precise the selections can be using the Wacom input. The main problem here is that I have no experience with any of their computer peripherals/tablet devices and so am still awaiting release of the DR800SG.
FYI, found a Sony Pocket Reader Edition in the base exchange yesterday following my annual eye exam. Decided to buy it as a "mobile" reader. (And, yes, it really fits in my shirt pocket.) It also has the advantage of allowing me to prototype and test PDF files custom formatted for any device using either the VizPlex 6-inch (600x800 166ppi) or VizPlex) 5-inch (600x800 200ppi) screens. However, I still want a larger, higher capacity reader capable of holding my entire main digital library. So I am still anxious to see the new iRex offering. Lastly, since no one has provided feedback regarding test files posted to my temporary web site, I have removed that site and created a new one for sharing public domain, custom formatted PDF files with members of my local Apple user group. This should keep me busy while I wait for more readers to be released and, hopefully, show up in the local area.
| Shaggy wrote: | | Previous iRex devices have not had user changeable batteries. I have not heard anything official, but it sounds like the DR800 does. We are mostly assuming that a "battery door" implies user changeable batteries (which would be great), but I don't think I've seen anything official that confirms it. |
Yes, I suppose we could be reading more into this than we should, but user changeable batteries would be an additional selling point for me as I tend to hang on to devices long after they become outdated and hate having to send them off to some repair service just to change batteries. Besides, if still functional, such outmoded items can make a reasonable "hand-me-down" gift for one of the grandchildren in the family. |
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jboardman
Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 62
Location: St. Joseph, MI
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:17 pm Post subject: Interchangable battery |
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I agree that to have a backup battery charged and ready to go would be a great addition to the Irex device. However, I have not had any complaints about the battery life of my Iliad since I exchanged the factory installed batteries with larger ones per postings on this site. I now get about 12 - 15 hours reading time one a single charge.
The deal maker for me with the Irex devices is the 8.1" screen. The Kindle 6" screen is just too damn small! If I want a truly portable device to take with me on backpacking trips, I will buy the Sony 5" device. But for everyday extended use, give me my Iliad any day.
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James E. Boardman |
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Shaggy
Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Posts: 1101
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: Interchangable battery |
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| jboardman wrote: | | I agree that to have a backup battery charged and ready to go would be a great addition to the Irex device. However, I have not had any complaints about the battery life of my Iliad since I exchanged the factory installed batteries with larger ones per postings on this site. I now get about 12 - 15 hours reading time one a single charge. |
I get a little over 12 hours with the factory batteries. How much larger were the ones you put in?
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The deal maker for me with the Irex devices is the 8.1" screen. |
Same here. IMO, 6" is too small, 10" is a little too big, 8" seems to be my preference. |
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jboardman
Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 62
Location: St. Joseph, MI
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:44 pm Post subject: Bigger batteries |
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I replaced the stock batteries with 2 2800 aAh batteries. I did this in accordance with JHarker's instructions on how to do the upgrade, including the software upgrade. I don't get anywhere near 20 or 25 hours, but I do get at least 12 - 15, which is enough for my usage (plugging into power every morning when I arrive at the office.) I can take a fully charged unit into court, and it will last me for the longest day that a Judge will allow (until he has to make his tee time!)
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James E. Boardman |
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Shaggy
Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Posts: 1101
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Bigger batteries |
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| jboardman wrote: | | I replaced the stock batteries with 2 2800 aAh batteries. I did this in accordance with JHarker's instructions on how to do the upgrade, including the software upgrade. I don't get anywhere near 20 or 25 hours, but I do get at least 12 - 15, which is enough for my usage (plugging into power every morning when I arrive at the office.) I can take a fully charged unit into court, and it will last me for the longest day that a Judge will allow (until he has to make his tee time!) |
What battery life were you getting before you made the swap?
The reason I'm asking is because the battery life you're getting now is what the stock batteries should have given you. It sounds like something isn't working right. I would expect that you'd be getting more with the larger batteries.
I assume you're running the current 2.12 firmware? |
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